Finding Beauty in Distinctions (with Bethany Cseh) | Ep. 71
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If you've been listening regularly to this podcast, you already know the kind of conversations we have here. Honest, sometimes uncomfortable, sometimes exploring places you didn't see coming, the kind where nobody's pretending, they have it all figured out. The online community is where those conversations keep going after the episode ends.
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You can join for as little as $10 a month. The link is in the show notes.
Welcome to another episode of Cabernet and Pray, where we sip the wine and we stir the faith. And today is just a delightful conversation with a pastor named Bethany [00:01:00] Shay. She lives in California and she's doing some really cool things and has such a refreshing perspective that I think you'll be very encouraged by as you listen to this episode.
She's the co-pastor of two different churches with her husband. Yes, you heard that, right? Two different churches, and I ask all the questions that I have about that to her in the episode and we get into a fascinating conversation as to why and what she's learned. In that experience that I thought was super intriguing.
She is a church planner. She's a foster, adoptive parent, which we get into that journey a little bit as well. She also lifts weights every day and, talks about her. Love for that. This is just a cool episode with a person that you want to follow and be connected to. This is episode 71, finding Beauty in Distinctions.
I've never shared this with anybody publicly. [00:02:00] If this was SportsCenter, that would be like such a hot take. Skip Bayless would've no idea. Stephen A. Smith would've no idea what to say if you drop that down. That is so good. The joke I always say is like, how'd you learn so much? Gotta drink a lot. The power of food and beverage to lubricate an environment.
Resistance to change is hurting the church. I'm not in the camp that God has a penis or a vagina or a body at all. I'm in the camp that God is at Universal Spirit. This is the strangest podcast that I've been on. I don't even know what to do. I'm kind of geeked up about this wine. This is my second glass, and it delivers a little more of a punch than I expected.
How if I get a little loopy. It's your follow up. You told me to drink it. I just show up. I'll also say, as a confession, I am a lightweight, so I've had like three sips of this wine and I'm already feeling it, so this is fun. You've uncovered the mystery, you've exposed the formula. You've just duct taped together a number of things that aren't normally hanging out together, and I'm here for it.
We're gonna sit down a [00:03:00] table, we're gonna have a glass of wine and some food, and we're gonna talk about the beauty of Jesus. Thanks for what you're doing with this podcast and for the creative way You're doing it in the. Beautiful positive spirit in which you're doing it. I really appreciate this venue, what you're doing.
It is fun, and yet you dig into the deep stuff. I've heard about your podcast for a long time, and I love that you're a pastor and that you explore the world of faith through wine that. Very unique. I never thought of church history in terms of wine drinkers. I love this question. Really got my mind rolling.
You had me with herbaceous notes. I want you to know I'm ready to just stay here and live in the wine tour. I will never forget the first time I bought a bottle of wine. By myself, which was yesterday. If you're familiar with Drunk History, I thought it's like drunk theology, so I, oh, I got a little spicy there.
It's the peach wine. Apparently the wine is, here we are. Here we are. [00:04:00] Beer, we are, no, it's wine. Jeremy, by the way, drinking this peanut regio at three o'clock in the afternoon is making me even more direct in my communication than I normally would be. I know why you have your guest drink wine. It makes sense now.
Yeah, I get it. A little bit of liquid courage should really unleash the beast. I think you've got a good podcast throwing the wine bit in there. That's nice, doesn't it? Cabernet and Prey. Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: People normally listen to Bethany while she's walking, but today you get to listen to her while she's drinking. So welcome to the podcast, Bethany.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Thanks, Jeremy. Cheers.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah, cheers. We, we both are on the same time zone and we were laughing that it's 11:00 AM our time and I'll let the listener draw their own conclusions.
But I'll just say this, Bethany selected the time, so that's all I'm gonna say. You draw whatever conclusions from that you want. Uh, Bethany selected the time, but you know what, we're here for it. And actually, fun fact, [00:05:00] when I did my wine certifications, they encourage you to drink in the morning because your palate is better.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Oh, okay. Well, great news for us then.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: So in case you needed a reason to feel
okay about an 11:00 AM. Wine sesh. This is, this is what we're gonna do. All right. So I'll talk about what I'm drinking and then we'll see what Bethany's got.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: I'm going to do something that, this is an interesting move for me. I'm, I'm drinking something I don't love and I'm doing it for the pod.
I'm doing it for the people. Uh, I'm actually on another podcast tomorrow where we're doing a, I'm, it's on, on another wine podcast. We're doing a wine comparison of two different pinot noirs and he wanted to, to compare omi, which is what I'm drinking today, which is a very, very popular pinot noir, uh, with another high-end pinot noir from Oregon.
And I said to him, I was like, I've never even had a Naomi, even though I hear it talked about all the time. So today, Bethany, that [00:06:00] is what I'm drinking, and I feel like I need to be honest with my listeners. I'm not loving it. It's not my favorite wine that I've had. I'm a little confused. A little confused as to the hoopla because I know a lot of people that I like and I respect them and they love Naomi.
To me, this feels very sugary and, uh, jammy. And so it's kind of odd for a pinot.
yeah, Yeah. not the vibe I normally would want in a pinot. Um, but you know, it's drinkable. So like I'll be able to get it down. It's just this is not my lane that I'm normally in, but I wanted to do it for the people. So I know a lot of people love Naomi.
We actually had a, a wine event recently where someone's like, Naomi Naomi's my favorite. And uh, the guy with me is like, you should drink other pinot noirs. So if that's you, I will say Oregon Pinots smoke this. But you know what? To each of their own, this is, this is where maybe people are entering into.
So [00:07:00] that's what I'm drinking today with that long, what's that?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: from again?
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: California. I don't know where this is at in California, but yeah, this is a, but you know, here's what I would think. This is so mass produced. I don't think this is like, there's one vineyard. I mean, my guess is they are sourcing tons of stuff and mixing it.
Um, because that's how you create, like if someone likes this flavor and you want the same flavor every year, you just mass produce it, mix the same things and kind of batch it, which is, I'm normally drinking, like this was from this vineyard, you know? totally. 'cause I nerd out on that stuff. So to me this is different.
But you know what, you gotta try some things. You gotta get out of your bubble. That's what I'm doing. Bethany, what are you drinking today?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Well, I was just thinking, and I will tell you in a minute, but there was this sermon, I think it was a sermon that Rob Bell preached about going to South Africa and experiencing the wine there, and it was just like, I don't know, it blew my mind. This was years ago, but it blew my mind in the sense of like having a [00:08:00] respect for the land that's producing the wine itself and how people that are trained in. grapes can the generations in the grape of what that land has endured. And I was just so blown away by that message. It gave me a greater respect for wine.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Love it.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: drinking a Pinot Noir this morning. This
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Are you jy Naomi?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: No, I'm not.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: That would be amazing.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I was like, what would be light for a morning wine session?
So I actually pulled this outta my cabinet. I've never had it before. I don't know anything about it. It looks expensive, but it's called Gary Pharrell. Um, and
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: River Valley in California. Russian River is wonderful for Pinots, they're known for their pinots. Um, and it's fine. I like it. I like it.
I think it's gotta open up a
bit.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: was that a question?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I think it's, uh, I think it's nice. Um, [00:09:00] I've only had one tiny teeny sip and so I think I would want it to open up a bit more. Uh, but it is very bright.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Oh,
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: um, yeah, I like it. I think I
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: what, what would you say you normally would drink if, if you're picking a glass of wine? What is pinot? Your normal.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Uh, no. Usually a Cabernet or a Tempranillo. Um, uh, usually those ones I love, uh, petite Verdo, or Petite Petite Raz are one of my favorites
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Big
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Nice. Yeah.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Um,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: need a, you need a piece of steak with I with those wines.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: right. Yeah. Uh, and I'm a part of a couple wine clubs and so there's one that is called Imagery, and they're part of Benzinger, the Benzinger family, and they make wonderful wines in, um, Glen Ellen, which is Sonoma area.
So I enjoy those. But those are, those are our fancy wines. We only open that bottle when it's a fancy time.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Do you have any like [00:10:00] wineries near you that you can drive to?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah, we do. We have quite a few actually.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Geez,
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: so jealous.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Field Brook. I mean there's just quite a few that have that, that produce their wine here in Humboldt, but a lot of them actually get their grapes from Napa and Sonoma, um, because we don't grow grapes as well. Here in Humboldt County there are some out towards Willow Creek, which is toward like closer to, it's east of, of Humboldt, towards Redding.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Nice.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: drier climate does better. But yeah,
it's fun. myself and any listener who cannot drive to a winery. Is very envious of you, so I hope you enjoy those.
Thank you.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Alright. One of the questions I'd love to start with, for our listeners to get a, a little bit of a preview of your story of who you are and, and I like to focus out in the last 10 years. If you look at your journey with God and your journey in faith, how would you say it's changed in the last 10 years?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: [00:11:00] Um, I think my faith and my journey has, is always changing it. I, and it goes well beyond 10 years. Um, I grew up, uh, Baptist and in a and in a church where women weren't allowed to men in any capacity once they turned, what, 13 or 12 or something like that. You could be a Sunday school teacher and you could definitely be a missionary, but you could
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: front of everybody in the church. And so I did not see any leaders in my church, uh, that would, that would, they were, they were volunteers, but not leaders in any capacity. So when I got married, um, was. My goal was to be a really great stay at home mom and a wife, and that was it, which is a admirable choice. Of course. I'm not knocking that in any way. Um, and my husband and I started a church in 2006, and when I say I helped start it, it was really like I was in charge of the hospitality team and, [00:12:00] and that's just who I am. Like I, I love caring for people. I love making sure that people feel included and that they belong. and during that time I started to kind of deconstruct a little bit of my own faith and like what does it mean to be a Christian person, um, a world that where God was given to me in this very clear box and that the thing that was most. Difficult for me was the concept of hell and how could a good God send all these people who might not ever hear about God to hell. And I would justify it. Like, oh, even the rocks will cry out. You know, no one has an excuse, but, you know, that's, that's just really a sad way of thinking. Um, yeah, so I, that's when I started to, to deconstruct a little bit.
And a lot of it had to do with the voices. I was listening to different perspectives. I mentioned Rob Bell earlier, and he was definitely a, a major person in that realm for me. I went to a [00:13:00] conference that he held called Poets, preachers and Prophets. I think it was called out in Grand, grand Rapids. And this was in maybe 2009. and that's when things started to unravel a bit for me. it was during that time that I was invited by. The other pastor and my husband to share at church on a Sunday. I, I prepared a sermon and I felt like I was just gonna share my heart. It was a way of justifying it. And I, and I shared my heart in front of everybody, and I just felt like everything clicked.
And I was like, wow, how, how am I going to say yes to this thing that I feel like God is calling me to say yes to when God must be wrong? Because it's not allowed. And so I, I struggled with that for a long time. I would teach once a month or so for a while, once every other month. [00:14:00] And every time I would just like kind of come before that space with a sense of fear and trembling like, this is not allowed, this is not okay.
I'm like putting myself under, my husband's covering, you know, this is kind of how I was determining it for myself, even though that's not ever.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: on stage somewhere while you were talking? 'cause that's that, yes. That has to be the way it's done.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah. And, and I, um, and so then one day I was talking to him about it and I was like, actually reading this book.
Oh gosh, this is so bad. Um, we, we had children by that point. We had, um, found out we couldn't have kids naturally towards the beginning part of our marriage. And then we decided to pursue adoption. And so we had adopted a few kids by this point, and was reading this book called, created to Be his help meet by. Pearl and her husband. I mean, just, just the worst of the worst. And I was like
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: What a title.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I know I was
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Oh [00:15:00] gosh.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: to fit in between two worlds. This world of questioning, de deconstructing God is bigger than I've ever understood, but also like, I don't wanna lose my tribe, my community, these people that are very conservative, this world that makes sense to me because I grew up in it, but doesn't make sense to me to live in it. And so I was like doing my best to stay in that by reading these sorts of books, being able to still talk the language, wanting to be the kind of person that was like considered heretical or whatever. Um, so I, I was like, Jay, like I need you to start our family better. Like you're supposed to be the spiritual leader. You're supposed to be the head of the house. And he is like, what are you reading? I'm like, is what it says. And he is like, that is really bad theology. The things that you're reading right now was really poor theology. it was in that moment that I realized that I was living in a construct that was, that my husband had no idea that [00:16:00] that was familiar to me.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Wow.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: mine that I was holding onto believing it for him, and he had no idea that that's how living. And so at that point, that was when I really started to go down a different path in my faith journey. Like maybe there's more than what I was handed. What was your question again?
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Wow. I mean, you, you just covered so much that I'm like, I don't even know where I want to take any of that. 'cause there's so much there.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Oh
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay, let's start here because I love the way you explain and the way as I'm listening to you,
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Mm-hmm.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: I'm just imagining you have this moment where you say, it clicks, you preach this sermon that in your head, you know, I'm not really allowed to do this.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: you have that going, you know, you have that voice. Then you have this other voice telling you, this is who you are, this is, this is right. I [00:17:00] think a lot of people live in that place
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: and it, and it may not be, you know, they're a woman who doesn't feel like they can preach. But whatever it is of, there is some spiritual rule that says, I cannot do what I'm doing, and yet I am sensing the spirit of God, bringing me to life, doing this thing or inviting me to do this thing and.
I would love, like, let's talk more about that. How does someone navigate that? How did you navigate? You said that you had a line, uh, you know, I said I was just sharing my story or how you, you were, you were rationalizing it somehow. So maybe that's kind of how we navigate it. But I mean, at what point do you go, look, this is a rule I was given and I suspect that still has lingering effects on you emotionally even today, but you've been able to logically work through that.
That's, I mean, that's a massive pivot of growth for you, and I would love for everybody to experience those kind of pivots as well, where you go, oh, I don't have to do this rule thing. It can be about the [00:18:00] spirit. How, how do we navigate that? What did you learn in your own journey of navigating that tension?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah. Um, it's, it's been a long journey in many ways. Uh, a lot of it had to do with reading certain books and trying to understand like, what, what was place in the first century, uh, role and what was Jesus doing that was different than what was already happening? Um, how do I understand Paul and his writings? What does it mean to be a. A Christian woman today that is to, I guess, lead by example in some ways. it took, yeah, a lot of reading and, and a lot of like perspectives that weren't readily available to me. I had to, I had to seek it out in a lot of ways. I really enjoy creating space of tension for people and for myself.
[00:19:00] And so part of the living and the tension is allowing, um, the questions to sit without having to provide the answers all the time. And within that, I know it's, this is a little bit challenging, but while I am a female pastor, there are people in our church less now, but especially in the beginning that were uncomfortable with female pastors. They were like, we don't know what to do with that because. The Bible says this, and yet we see the anointing on you with that. And so it was, we were trying to provide places for people to struggle with it on their own. this is still true for our church in many ways. Like while we have, I I, I pastor with my husband, we pastor two churches.
We pastor a non-denominational church that we started years ago. Um, and we came from a, another mega church down in Southern California who helped kind of send us up this way to Humboldt. [00:20:00] Our church is not mega by any means. I think there's like 70 people. It's very small and very sweet. And then we also pastor a United Methodist church.
We became United Methodist Pastors 12 years ago. and so it's two different churches that we pastor. So the United Methodist Church has all their doctrines and beliefs and everything put together. They've done. A hundred years of work to make it clear. And every year they do more work on making sure that they're clear on what they believe.
Believe as a denomination. Our church, because we're not associated with any specific denomination, kind of make it up as we go in some ways for good or bad. I mean, in some ways we've, we've definitely taken wrong turns in the past. And, one of the reasons that we became United Methodist Pastors was because we felt like we needed more oversight for ourselves as leaders. We needed more other pastoral, uh, people to check in on us and people we could connect with if we needed to. But within the, [00:21:00] church is called Catalyst. And within Catalyst we try really hard provide kind of that third way with living in the tension, while we have, of our elders is a married queer woman, we also have people in our church that believe that. That homosexuality, the practice of homosexuality is inconsistent with the teachings of scripture. And so within those areas, we are, we invite people to lay down our opinions and even beliefs in some ways, to focus on the conviction of Jesus. That doesn't mean we don't have hard conversations. It doesn't mean that we avoid the discomfort or, or try to stay blind to it, or just let's not talk about the things that are no longer important because only Jesus is important. Jesus guides all those conversations, and so we come into it with a sense of curiosity, with [00:22:00] wonder, trying to, what we'd have is instead of having a beliefs page with, you know, these are the things that we believe, and this is what you need to know before you come to our church. We have a page on our website, and this is kinda what we subscribe to.
We have opinions, beliefs, and convictions. Opinions. Are those things that you're like, um, no one is allowed to watch rated our movies. Don't, you know, like, that's so bad. It's, it's like gonna, it's, it's, it's a slippery slope into sin. Well, that's an opinion. A belief would be like, um, is homosexuality sin? I believe that that would be a belief. Um, or is creation, this is a, you know, silly one. Is creation only? Is the earth 6,000 years old or is it, you know, or is evolution the thing? Those would be beliefs. People have done their research, they understand it a little bit more. You know, is women in ministry? Is that a belief? convictions are those things that we would die on, we would die on the hill of. And those are extremely few, very, very, [00:23:00] like hold in the palm of your hand kind of thing. All those other things, ideas of, all the things that usually tear churches apart. We allow those things to exist, and if people wanna exist in that with us, that's wonderful, and if they can't, that's okay, but we are not gonna split over it, if that
makes sense.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: So you've, you've made the essentials, non-essentials language a little bit more robust, adding a little bit of nuance to it.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay. On a personal level, 'cause I, and I haven't even shared this, uh, so I was having a conversation with my wife the other day where I, I realized something about my journey, something I used to say was essential of part of Christianity.
I no longer think is essential, and it was an unnerving feeling to me to go. I remember so clearly preaching sermons and ex, you know, defending why this, and again, I would say my, my trajectory has been the, the essential list has gotten [00:24:00] smaller and smaller and smaller. The older I've got
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Mm.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: I'm like, I used to think all these things were essential, now I'm like, I don't think many of them are.
I'm curious for you, have you ever, and I don't know if you have these convictions like written out where like these are the convictions or it's more of like a framework. Have you found that you've even changed some of those and if so, maybe what are they? Or are you like No, that's always been the same and I don't ever think they'll change.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Um, I think some of the details have gotten muddied over time within some of those convictions, but I would say within our, within my convictions personally, a lot of it has to do with, um, people with the planets, um, and with fidelity to, to Christ or to God. Uh, and those convictions for myself have to look, have to do with making sure that all voices are included, that everybody's voice matters and everybody belongs in the beloved community, um, that this planet is worth caring for.
And, uh. [00:25:00] Part of that is I was just on a, I was just doing a podcast last week and this woman that I was interviewing, uh, she's the editor for Sojourner Magazine and she was talking about how she sees her communal spaces in the form of watersheds. And so when it comes to loving your neighbor as yourself, especially as the church, what does it look like to love your watershed as yourself, like all of God's creatures?
And so taking on a level of responsibility for the environment, not just the people around your community, whether it's your home or your church, but actually all of God's creatures. And that really impacted me. That gave like a little bit more meat on the bones, I guess, of, of, of like the structure of what does it mean to love, to care for the environment?
Like what does it mean specifically in the place that I live in the, area that my, especially my church building specifically. can we be [00:26:00] caring for the creatures are nearby? so those, those sorts of areas of convictions are really important to me, and obviously I think to our church as well when it comes to like the core orthodoxy of our church. Um, one of the most important things is we gather around the, the table every week and we break bread together. Uh, we go through a communion liturgy where we recite the confession or pray the confession, we pray the Lord's Prayer, just those grounding rituals that have been around for thousands of years that people find, uh, accountability for themselves and for their neighbor.
In those moments, they can take stock of their lives and, and for what they want to live differently in the week to come and then to be reminded that no matter where they're at, the table is open, and if the table's open for them, the table's open for. Those that they believe shouldn't be at the table. and then [00:27:00] baptism is an important conviction of ours as well. Uh, we, we just believe that this picture of going under the waters and renouncing evil in all forms and coming out of the water into this beloved family of God is, uh, is an important part of what it means to be included in the faith family.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: It's almost, these are values rather than beliefs. These are how we embody, embody what we believe.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah, yeah. I think oftentimes Christianity has been known for what we believe instead of what we value.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: known in by what we, yeah. Like by, do you believe this? Can you say that? Um, whatever it is, the sinner's prayer, or can you describe the Trinity imp perfection or it is. Um, it was Jesus born of the Virgin, and if, if you don't believe that, then. Jesus rise and bodily form? And if you don't believe that, well people have all [00:28:00] sorts of different beliefs, but does that mean that they no longer belong because they don't believe the same things that you believe Is there? Is there a deeper, is there a deeper reality this world that we can subscribe to without having all of our beliefs perfectly understood or even accepted? And is that something that we call it, we call it like this base note, there's this base note, this energy that is in the undercurrent of all things, this base note of love that kind of keeps going forward. Um, and whether we know exactly how to connect ourselves to that perfectly all the time or not, it's still there.
And at any time we can join this great, this great melody, harmony of beauty around us.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: I love that. Well said. Cheers to that.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Cheers.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay. You've, you've mentioned so many things I wanna unpack.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I'm a little bit frazzled
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay, I'll, so over the try to, I'll try to make sure we don't leave anything awesome out. [00:29:00] to, I just need to drink more and then I'll calm
there you go. Drink up. Okay. So one of the things that, a lot of things you say and embody, I'm like, drawn to you and I'm like, I, I love the way you think.
I love the way you process this. When I found out that you guys did foster and adoption as another connecting point, we have five kids. Our littlest two we fostered and adopted.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: No way. Wow.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: So not many people know that journey. And it's, it's one of those, um. My experience, unless you have lived it, you, you really don't understand what goes into it and, and what it looks like from afar is often very different than the lived experience of that.
I'm curious for you, for, from you, what have been some of the insights in your journey with fostering and adoption that you have learned that the rest of us could benefit from?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: It is, uh, I've, I was told a lot before we ever adopted that. It's like the most [00:30:00] admirable thing, you know? And oftentimes in the evangelical church, there's this idea that you have to work your way into God's good grace. And if you do enough good than God's more pleased with you and you get more gold stars in heaven or whatever. And yeah, like merit badge, theology. And I remember thinking like, oh, adoption. That's like, God's gonna be so pleased like that. This is the, this is the road we took instead of in vitro or some other form of, of assisted human reproduction. And I, I had to do a lot of work like repenting of that mentality. it wasn't be, I don't, like that would be more of like a sin of omission in some ways because I didn't realize the culture I'd been in for so long that perpetuated this mentality that adoption is some sort of human rescuing and that's just not the case. Um, adoption freaking sucks. It is, it is horrible that it exists.
It is so freaking sad that [00:31:00] kids are not able to be with their family of origin and it's not the way that it's meant to be. And so to tute it as some sort of rescue or good deed, it negates the amount of suffering and loss that these kids will experience their entire lives. Most of them, not every person obviously has the same story of loss and abandonment.
Like they don't feel it as acutely in their bodies as other adopted kids. Most of them do. There's like this primal wound that happens in a child when they are removed from their home, whether it was the choice of the mother or not, the choice of the mother. And obviously with foster care it's even a deeper loss because you know, people can demonize a birth parent all they want who was not able to keep their kids. But that birth parent, anybody who's experienced addiction knows that a lot of times it's not really a choice. I mean, you need a lot of help and poverty is [00:32:00] not a choice. It is a systemic injustice that people are born into that affects everything. Um, it is a systemic sin for sure. So that's a lot. Sorry, that was on a soapbox there.
'cause I feel a lot of feelings when it comes to this.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: I struck a chord there.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I know. Um, yeah, it is. So adoption is, is based on loss. There's the loss of Jason and I being able to conceive children. There's the loss of the birth parent with the birth child and the loss of the birth child with their family of origin. And so for us, we tried really hard to keep the family in of origin, as connected as possible.
We really believe in open adoption. And there have been times where it's been just easy and lovely, especially when they were little. It's been harder as they've become teenagers and it's been harder when families of origin can no longer show up or un or unable to show up in the capacity that my kids would hope or even that the family of origin would hope.
Um, and that's been really hard and that's something that my kids will struggle with [00:33:00] and wrestle with the rest of their lives. Um, yeah, they're all teenagers now. We adopted them really young. Uh, my, my son Isaac, uh, was a private adoption actually, and we adopted him when he was almost six months. I'm sorry.
No, he was two and a half months when we got him. We actually got him right after we started the church. We would, we like started the church in, in
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Because you had so much free time.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I know. And we got him
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: We're bored. Let's, let's adopt a child.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah. we had, we had already gone through at, we had gone through 13 unsuccessful adoptions before we got Isaac.
So we had our first kid, Matthew, we had him for a month. Um, his birth mom chose us when she was in the hospital. And so within two days of being picked, we got Matthew. Um, and the birth father just got a lawyer immediately and, and wanted to fight us. And so we got lawyers and the whole time we were like, if this guy's a loser, [00:34:00] we're gonna fight to the very end.
And he was not a loser. He was a good, I mean he was young, he was 19, but he was ready to be his son's dad. And I knew it all the way through. And so we had to say. We had to, to say that we couldn't continue forth with that adoption and the adoption agency, it was their first, what they would call a failed adoption. And um, and they told us that we were unfit to be parents because we obviously didn't care enough for the kid to fight for them, for him. And man, that was so rough. So that was a year before we started the church, and then we had 12 others from that moment. Um, that, you know, I was there for births and c-sections and all the things and, um, everything fell through. we had given up really. And so when we started, we started the church. Uh, we got a call right around that same time from Isaac's birth mom. And she was in my parents' Bible study and she had, um, [00:35:00] she had found out she was pregnant at the same time that we had Matthew. And my parents had, my mom had, hadn't seen her in like maybe. Seven years, and they ran into each other in Safeway at a park in the parking lot. so she found that she knew she was pregnant. She didn't tell my mom, but the whole time she was pregnant, she was like, I wonder if Jason and Bethany be able to adopt him if I can't do this. 'cause she already had two grown daughters and a grandkid on the way. Um, she, so she called us and she's like, Hey, this is who I am. I have this little guy, he's a month old. we're like, so sorry. We cannot, like we have, we were living on our friend's couch. Um, we had no more money left from all the other adoptions, and we didn't have anything to offer that him.
And so she's like, well, I think you're meant to adopt him, so I'll call you back next month. I'm like, okay.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Stay in touch.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah. And so she called us back and, um, [00:36:00] down to the Bay Area and picked Isaac up and he's, he's almost 20 now, which.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Wow.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Beyond me. and then we became foster parents. Two years later or about a year later, we went through the process and it was, it's like a year long process to become foster parents in California. And we got a phone call for Emily and she was 14 months old and had some, a lot of severe neglect and things of course. Um, and she has reactive attachment disorder, so there's, it's just been a long road with her and your listeners can Google that if they want. And then, uh, a year later we got Antonio when he was six months old. Emily is 18 and Antonio is 16. it's just a lot of, a lot happening in our lives all the time with three kids with, um, lots of therapy, so much therapy, so much behaviorist type stuff. Um, they're all fairly neurodivergent kids as well. And, lots of [00:37:00] slam doors and punched holes on the wall. A lot of patients on our parts and on their part as well. Yeah,
a there's so much, there's so much there that I can imagine someone listening to going like, what are you even like, why all these things? And I don't know if you've found this, I can't think of another subject. Maybe you can think of one where there is a gap between the typical person and what they imagine the experience to be and what the experience is.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: And so when they make comments to you, you're like, okay, Yeah. I, I think I. I can give you the benefit of the doubt of where I think you're trying to come from, but like, you don't realize how crazy. And I'll give you like one example I hear all the time. Like I remember when we, when we were earlier on in our journey, um, our boys are, uh, 10 and 12 right now.
And we got 'em both at like [00:38:00] babies, babies. And people would say, this is so cool, God has always wanted them to be in your family. And I knew they meant it from a good place. So it was like, I didn't wanna like, you know, totally dunk on 'em and make 'em feel ridiculous, but to all the pain and everything you said, it's like, it just, it negated all the reality of this.
And so we would just try to really lovingly say. Actually, that's not how we envision God's role in this. We don't view this as this was God's plan A and this is, this is like plan way letters down, right? Of Yeah. of, a lot of things had to break for this to be this. And there's a lot of pain in, in grief there.
And to your point, that doesn't ever go away. Like you, you just, you, you learn to live with that and embrace that. And so, um, it's, you know, whenever someone tells me today, Hey, we're thinking about fostering and adopting, I'm always like, it's not what you think it is. So like, let's have a [00:39:00] real conversation so that you understand the dynamics of this.
And if you're okay with that and that's what the journey you wanna go down, it can be absolutely beautiful, but it's beautiful in the way that the gospel is beautiful. And that often involves suffering and loss and pain and grieving. And yet beauty emerges in the midst of that. So even as you're talking, like, we've had so much drywall repair in our house because of our boys, you know, so it's like, but you say that to someone that has neurotypical biological children, you know, too.
And they're like, why? Why would a, why would they do that? And it's like the amount of medications that we have to keep up on, the amount of therapies and counselings and extra services and yeah. It's a wild road. And so anyway, I just heard that about you and I'm like, all right, we have another, another point that we connect on, and I love the takeaways that you've, you've learned from it, and that's definitely been true for our story as well.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah. Yeah. It's always hard when [00:40:00] my kids will be in a certain place and somebody hears or they know that they're adopted or something and will say, oh, you're so lucky. no, not lucky. And I hope someday they will have like a sense of gratitude or like, you know, just like any of us for life, even if we've been raised through difficulty or had trauma as a young person, there is this hope to. Grow up and our brains fully develop, and to be able to recognize that God carried us through those hard things, or that there are, there is so much to be grateful for, but for an adolescent person who is already experiencing all sorts of hormonal changes, who, even if you're not adopted, you still think, oh, if I was just raised by my best friend's parents, things would be better. Things are always better outside of the home that you're in, of course. But for them to be told, oh yeah, I bet you're so lucky. You're just so lucky. No, it's, it is complete. It's, it's difficult for them to [00:41:00] see any kind of luck in it. It's sad. The whole thing is really beautiful and sad and beautiful and sad and beautiful and sad over and over and over
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: And it makes.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: want it any other way.
I'm so grateful, but it's still so freaking hard.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Well, and it makes so many social interactions so difficult because of how complex it is.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: And you know, the other day we had, we had to change dentists for our boys the other day because one of our sons is autistic and he has bipolar, so Same. very neurodivergent. And those two together are like a motov cocktail when they go off.
And so, you know, the expectations of like what healthy looks like for him is just different than what it would be for a neurotypical kid. And so we go to this dentist and every time, you know, he, he's already struggling just to get through the appointment, but then she would lecture him on, you're not, you're flossing, you're not doing enough.
And I, and I'm like trying to look at her like, you're, you're not reading the [00:42:00] room at all. Like, you're not, you know, and it's like, I don't wanna say all of this in front of him 'cause I don't want to be like, let me explain why these are, you know, it's like then that's not helpful for him. But at the same time, looking at her, I'm like, lady.
The fact that he's sat through in this chair as long as he has, and he hasn't punched you. You know, it's like, like he's working really hard right now and you're lecturing him and lecturing me. And I just got to the point where I told my wife, I was like, I don't want to go to a place where they just keep lecturing us.
Like we're, we're, we're fighting for our lives here. And so we found a different dentist that doesn't do that, and like took notes of like, oh, these are, you know, things that he needs. This is what helps him set him up great. But even that, it's like you can't do normal social interactions without all of these complexities coming to the surface.
And the typical person just doesn't understand it. And it's just really tricky.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah, it is so tricky. It's so true. And I, I, I wish in [00:43:00] some ways we could all have little badges that we wear on ourselves that say, this is who I am. Please be gentle. Like, please be patient with me or whatever. and instead we just have to teach people, including ourselves on how to approach people differently. With a lot more patience and grace, uh, and it's just a lot of work. Yeah. Sometimes it's easier to avoid those so social situations because of
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Well, you realize the world is made for neurotypical people
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Totally is, I
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: and when you are one, it works and it's great, but. The, you know, if the gospel's good news, it's gotta be good news for everybody. And how do we create spaces for everybody, which means those of us that go, well I don't, I don't have that issue, or that's not a thing for me.
You have to care enough about the people who would say, that's a thing for me to, to adjust the environment for them. And I think [00:44:00] that's the best thing for me. I've learned out of it, of like, oh, I have to be a better parent to them. I can't expect them to just, well, you know, I have these other kids and they're not neurodivergent, so be like them.
It's like, no, I have to figure out, I have to add tools to my toolbox of like, how do I help you the way you need to be helped? And really it's like, this is what we'd want for everybody. Like everybody should treat every person you meet with this of like, what do you actually need? And how can I show kindness to you?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah, yeah. But I bet that is a, an interesting dynamic even with having biological kids and having adopted kids and trying to figure out like, how do we, we include everybody as our kids, it's not so much of like adopted, not adopted. It's like neurodivergent and neurotypical. Those are like the bigger distinctions in a lot of ways.
Obviously adoption comes with a certain amount of trauma because of the loss, but those, those neuro divergencies and the mental illness and all the different things that impact a person's life makes a person feel different [00:45:00] and are seen differently in society because of that. And that's hard to as a parent that, you know, you're in love with your kids and you're like, how do I make sure that they all feel like they're just all a part of it all the time?
And it's hard work.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: So I, I, I commend you. I don't know what it's like to have biological kids and adopted kids. Only adopted,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: That's kind of a hot mess. So ours are our funny, so my, my wife has dark brown hair. I have dark brown hair. So our biological three all have really dark brown hair. Our, our little boys have bleach blonde hair.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: No
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: So we call 'em the brownies and the blondies, Love it. because we got, they, you know, and what's, I mean, what's funny too is if I'm just with one of my younger boys, I don't look like them.
They don't look like me. They're white, but they've got, you know, hair color that's like, I don't think it came from that guy. And so I've had people like, how blonde is your wife? You know, like to me, 'cause they're like, how did you, and it's like, oh no, no, no. That, that's not how that works. But
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah. Yeah,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: it's funny.
Okay, another question I have,
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: [00:46:00] yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: to this, but this was when I'm like, okay, I gotta find out more. You pastor two churches.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Bethany, I have pastored, ah, church before and it was all consuming. I can't even wrap my head around, let's do two of these and they'll be denominationally different. And again, you, you explained a little bit about what drew you to the Methodist end of it, but why not?
I guess my question is why not try to merge it into one? Is there a reason that doesn't exist? I got questions practically. Do they meet at different times of the week? Do they, are your roles different in each church? Like I, why two? I, I've inquiring minds wanna know?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah, yeah. Okay. That's a great question. So, um, thought of Catalyst becoming part of a denomination, and so when, when with our leadership team, and this was maybe 15 years ago, [00:47:00] 16, probably 16 years ago, our leadership team trying to support Jason and me, not just financially, but also um, emotionally and spiritually. We planted the church with another couple and then they left about five years in and left with like a lot of chaos that surrounded their leaving and a lot of challenges morally and things like that, that we had to do a lot of work trying to clean up from. felt really alone in it, even though we had some good leaders over the course of like a year or two after they left, we had some new leaders come on who didn't know them personally.
They didn't know the previous pastors and so they were thinking with everything that had happened, maybe it would be a good idea for Catalyst to be part of a denomination and have more spiritual oversight. we looked into different denominations that ordained women specifically [00:48:00] we were meeting at a Presbyterian church at the time, so we were talking with them and we were meeting with, we, we, we were. We looked in the Covenant Church because Catalyst has a lot of ex evangelicals in our church. And so there's something nice about the evangelical familiarity, but with a progressive bend and covenants do ordained women. And then, uh, there were maybe four or five of our leaders who were members of the United Methodist Church at one point or another, and they're like, we love the United Methodist Church.
Um, excuse me, we wouldn't ever go back, but there were cool denomination. And I was like, all right. And so they set up a meeting with the district superintendent who lived in the town next to us, and we talked to the guy and, is like, well, you know, we don't, never done anything like this before.
The, it's rare that we would bring in people are not part of the main line specifically. To be [00:49:00] a part of the church, but let's see if we can make this work. And so we became interns at one of the United Methodist churches in the area, uh, under the pastor that was there. And the way that the Methodists do things is they're on appointment system.
And so every five to seven years, they move the pastors to a different church. So you're only at one church for like, somewhere, I mean sometimes three to seven years. Uh, and it, the nice thing about that is you build a church upon the people instead of on a personality. The hard thing about that is a lot of today's, um, the way that church is today is from my experience, is that pastors want to be included in the family of believers instead of being up here and distant from them, which back in the day, that was very true. So we started pursuing that route of becoming. United Methodist. We had to go through like a licensing school thing. 'cause we, [00:50:00] neither of us, um, were ordained. We just were licensed with our, with our non-denominational church. degree was in psychology. Jason's was in pastoral leadership, but we only had bas.
And so we went and got our Masters of Divinity at Claremont School of Theology. It took us seven years to get it though, because we were pastoring both churches at that time and raising three kids. Um, so it took us a long time and going through a pandemic, we ended in 2023. Um, so yeah, we, we, it, it is very weird.
It is very weird. Pastoring two very different denominations. Through the course of our time uh, at the United Methodist, we, our leadership team at Catalyst said they did not want to become a part of, of a denomination. They wanted to stay non-denominational and still be able to. Kind of be flexible in the way that we do things.
And I, I appreciate that a lot because I think [00:51:00] I would have died on the vine if I didn't have catalyst. lovely as the United Methodist Church is, and mainline church is, there is a reality that structures, while very helpful and um, needed, can also be confining for the movement of the Holy Spirit or for being inventive in the church.
And that confining would be really difficult for me personally, to be only in one confined way of doing it. And so we get to do both, which is amazing. Like we get to, to, it's like the, it's like the lecture in the lab almost in some ways. Um, and yeah. And so I prepare a sermon for Catalyst every week. It's usually like 30 minutes. Um. Of a message or whoever's teaching at Catalyst. It takes about 45 minutes to get through though, because we do a lot of conversation. So it's I'll, we will read the scripture, we'll open it up for conversation. What do you see? What kind of [00:52:00] curiosities do you have in this passage? Um, what have you noticed from before? And then I'll, I'll teach on it and then have questions throughout, like, what's coming up? How are you feeling in your body? What have you heard before on this? Um, where do you think I'm going wrong? Or what part, what perspective do you think I'm missing here? And so it's more of a communal sermon, which is amazing.
It's so fun. I love it so much. Most of the time, sometimes it gets a little outta hand, but most of the time it's, it's great. Um, and then I'll take a portion of that and modify it for the Methodist. 'cause they're used to a shorter 10 minute homily. that's, that's how the Methodist service goes. And, and the last few months. Catalyst grew out of the building that we've been renting. And so Catalyst moved into the United Methodist Church building. So now we share a space together. that has mostly been going really well. I think both communities had to let go of, of pieces of themselves to [00:53:00] make room for the other, and those pieces were beautiful.
And so there's a little bit of grief there. Um, but also sometimes it's the change that can bring new hope. And so for some of the Catalyst folks who are disenfranchised with church, they distrust hierarchy. They've been hurt by the church in some way or another. Coming into a sanctuary a vulnerable state for them.
It takes a certain amount of bravery, uh, where there's stained glass and pews. And for the Methodists, we ch we change the whole sanctuary around. Like we aren't even facing the stage anymore. All the pews are like. out to, to, we already tried to curve them as much as possible to create more community, and so that's been really hard for them too, to degrade the sanctuary in some ways.
So everybody's uncomfortable
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: it. You, you shifted the angle of a pew,
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: and people are like, whatcha doing?
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: you [00:54:00] act like you like destroyed the stained glass or something. But no, we're just gonna turn this pew a little bit.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: p we're gonna turn it to a little bit to
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: That's amazing. So obviously, I mean, I imagine the typical person in each church knows of the other church, knows of, of this role. Is there, I don't even know, like a, a holy jealousy of. I wish, I wish, you know, we only got my pastor and they didn't get it and like, I don't know, like I can imagine like two siblings if you will, kinda like battling for mom and dad.
Is there, is there any like dynamics of that or like, everybody kind of just loves what they have and it's good.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: So I think that dynamic has been there for a while in a lot of different places. And um, and that's been really hard. That's a really good question. 'cause it has been really hard in a lot of ways for different people, not for Catalyst as much, because they're like, um, I don't know, they kind of live in their own bubble.
Like they're just doing their own [00:55:00] thing and happy with the way things are. It's a, it's a small church. There's like 75 usually on a Sunday, and sometimes more, sometimes less. Uh, but they're always like willing to try anything new and they're not, like, they're not beholden to anything. Everything's an experiment. Whereas the Methodists are very beholden to the way things have always been. So, and I think that there has been like some feeling like they're the stepsister or something like that in some ways. And so back in. think it was in October, maybe when we decided to have, when we asked if Catalyst could move over and the Methodist started making space, we decided to do this hybrid service and we had like 30 minutes of a Methodist where we do prayers of the people and we pass the offering basket and they have the things that they're familiar with, with the hymns. me. And then we went, we would have Catalyst come in during [00:56:00] passing the peace, we would have a shared sermon together, and then we'd go into communion and the Methodist would leave and Catalyst would continue with their worship, with their band and everything. And it was getting to be way too long for the Methodist.
They were just like, this is, we're here for an hour and a half. We are dying. And so just last week we, after a lot of conversation trying to figure out. What is, what do we wanna do together for the, like, the catalyst was like, we don't care. Whatever, we'll just keep doing the thing that we're doing. But, you know, the Methodists were making a lot of space for Catalyst to come in and, um, it was so last week we, after a lot of conversation, we decided to go back to different services. And while that was sad to some degree, what we realized was, um, there's, there's a Korean pastor in our conference, in the Methodist conference, and he pastors a Korean church. And as hard as he tried to put this church as one [00:57:00] service together on a Sunday morning, Korean Americans had a hard time with the Koreans.
And the Koreans had a hard time with the Korean Americans. And so what he recognized was, instead of trying to put these two very different cultures together and saying we're gonna make this work, he realized that they are one church with two different cultures. And that is nothing to be sad about.
That's actually really beautiful. The whole idea of like the United States, being a melting pot is really sad because we are not a melting pot and we've tried to do that, but in the melting, we miss the diversity and the character every single person brings to the table and we can celebrate that. Instead, we're trying to like acclimate ourselves and become one mes enmeshed thing the beauty of what it means to be So I think what we've discovered at this point, and I, and I saw it within this last Sunday, is the Methodists are now doing, we're doing our own little service, and the front end, it's [00:58:00] about 45 minutes.
They have their own message and then we share communion together with Catalyst and then they go on to their coffee hour and Catalyst continues going with their service. And I, everybody just felt like. A big sigh of relief. Like they were so happy to go back to the way things were their culture is so beautiful and meaningful to them, they were willing at one point to let go of their culture just to become one church because they wanted to do something different. But when we went back to the way it was before, everybody was just like, yes, this is so good, and I think it's okay. Instead of trying to something together and make it all fit, to celebrate the uniqueness and recognize that, the beauty of God is beyond it's more within the distinctions.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: That is fascinating, man. I think people listening [00:59:00] to this right now are like, whoa.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Hmm.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: that was, that was a fascinating insight and I love that you're, so, you're both C communities are doing communion together?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah, we do a shared communion.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Uh oh yeah.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah, so we, we sing a song in the beginning when Catalyst comes in, and so it's a shared song together. And then, and then our communion liturgy with the confessional and the Lord's Prayer is all part of, um, you know, Christ died, crisis, risen Christ will come again. All of that is together. Uh, and then we all receive communion together and the table is open and we receive it, um, during two songs. And so we sing together two songs while people come up whenever at their own pace to receive the elements. Um, and then the Methodist, by that point, they, they usually try to line up first so they can get it and go and, uh, and it's really, I don't know, it's just this really beautiful thing.
And then we do other shared things together. We do shared service projects and a shared book club. Um. [01:00:00] We always do shared Christmas Eve and Easter together, um, and Good Friday and things like that. So those are
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Now, will you have to move from the Methodist side of that in five to seven years?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: No. So this is, this was the loophole we found. Um, so the loophole for us is that we chose not to be ordained in the United Methodist Church. So we are licensed local pastors, meaning that we are not part of the appointment system. The appointment system is great because you are guaranteed a job until retirement as a
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Oh, okay.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: job in the United Methodist Church as licensed local pastors.
You are, you are only hired for that year. So we've been hired for one year, for the past 12 years at this one church and we're just like trying to sneak under the radar, like, don't look at us.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay. This is so fascinating. It, you're, you're contrasting this with the melting pot idea and you're saying this is something different. Do you, what is this called? What, what are you [01:01:00] doing?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: What do you mean?
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Is there a name for this idea of We're allowing each culture to be its thing, but then we're coming to get like, I, like, I don't know what to call this.
What is this? This is beautiful.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: It's called Beautiful? No, I don't know. I don't have a name for it. I'm not a name person. My husband loves names. He loves to like,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Please tell him we need a name for what this is, because we're super intrigued.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: okay, cool. I'll, I'll write a book about it once he gives me the name.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: I mean, even your thing about, like, if you would ask me, like in your situation, I would say like, yeah, it'd be the healthiest thing for both, you know, to come together and unity. Like I, that would totally make sense. And then as I'm listening to you, I'm like, this actually also totally makes sense and probably is way better.
And I just think that's not intuitive for people.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: No, and it wasn't intuitive for us either. It like, I truly believe it was an act of the Holy Spirit because it came out when I was in, uh, a church council meeting coming up with [01:02:00] ideas. And that I, the first idea of like having shared a sermon and communion with like a little front end of their own thing, um, up first and we tried it and it just, it just didn't feel right.
So then this next time we were in a meeting was just like, what, like two Tuesdays ago is when this idea came up of like, what if we just share communion and, and, and this, I mean, communion is the most beautiful part of our unity. It is what it means to be the unified body of Christ throughout the global world. And every week that we recite the Lord's Prayer, we pray it together, we are joining our voices with the great company of saints around the world, in head coverings. Others, you know. Wearing bikinis. I don't even know, like all sorts of people.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: church?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I don't know. Beach probably.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah, Furley.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: all sorts of people taking, like, [01:03:00] letting all of their differences be dropped for a moment to come together around the unified body and blood of Jesus Christ that takes away the sins of the world and everything else becomes secondary.
All those opinions and beliefs are secondary conviction that all are included into this beloved community of God's grace through the blood of Jesus Christ. And, and that's like, so yeah, all those differences and distinctions is what makes us beautiful as human beings. The more we get to know those distinctions, the better we get to know God because God has shown through our distinctions. But to have to release all those distinctions in order to belong. I don't think is always necessary, but communion is that beauty of belonging.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Woo.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: It's a good word today. That's so good.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay, before we move on, there is one [01:04:00] other question. I'm not gonna get to a bunch of my questions, but there is a question I would kick myself if I didn't ask you this. You will be known by many listeners or if they check you on social media as the Walk with Me pastor.
Um, it's so cool that you do this. This is, I guess, a thing, I don't know how long you've done it, but you, you as, as I gather it, you have your morning devotion, quiet time, you do your things you gotta do, take care of the animals, you know all that. And then you go, and then you film these videos that are walk with me.
And I was, I was telling my wife about this today
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Mm-hmm.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: like, does she do that every day? And I'm like, I think so. And she's like, I wonder if she ever batch batches them. Like, does like one walk and like makes like seven videos out of, or whatever. I'm like, I don't think she does. She's like, what if she's traveling?
I'm like. I don't know what she doesn. She's like, that's what I would ask her. So all of this tell us about Walk with Me. Why did that turn into the thing it is for you and why does that, why do you think that format has clicked for you?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah, I [01:05:00] know. I, I don't, I can't tell you anything about that necessarily, except that, um, back in January of last year, I was on, I was podcasting with the podcast I'm a part of called, this is Not Church, and we had this woman on, and I, oh, I can't remember her name at the moment, which I feel terrible about. But she has a TikTok and she's, and I, I thought TikTok was like the dumbest thing in the whole wide world. I still kind of do. Um, but she had this thing where she was like, yeah, I, I rage prayers is what she does. And so you might know who she is. I can't remember her name, but she's great. She has these rage prayers she's got quite a following And I was like, well, why, why TikTok? And she said, there's just a lot of of voices out there, Christian voices that are more conservative or even Christian nationalistic. And the only way that we're gonna combat that is if we have a different voice. And I was like, that's compelling. [01:06:00] So I opened up TikTok and got it going.
And I recorded my first video, which I can't remember what it was, but, um, but it was, it was like a, a walk with me sort of a thing. And it just resonated with my heart. So that was last, like, middle of January. So I've only been doing it for a little over a year now. But yes, every day walk with people a lot.
One of my favorite things as a pastor, beyond preparing a sermon and, and preaching, 'cause I like being in God's word and soaking in it is like, it's like my, food. It's nourishing. Um, the part that I love about pastoring more than anything is like literally walking with people. And there's something very healing processing life with someone instead of over a cup of coffee and face to face with someone being shoulder to shoulder with them allowing conversation to flow a little bit [01:07:00] easier that way. Uh, and then also there's a practice called EMDR that goes with like the right and the left brain. And you can, you can help center yourself by tapping your right and left shoulder or different parts of your body. It can help, like, make you feel a little bit more centered. So walking is a form of EMDR in some ways.
And so when people are going back and forth right, left foot, left foot, um, it helps, found it helps conversation flow differently. So I love walking with people. And so I just decided, what if I just invite people to walk with me on these morning routines? And I use a prayer app called Pray As You Go. It's like a 13 minute guided reflection with scripture. There's usually a song or a chant, um, and just some questions that come up from the scripture. And I, I just sit with that passage and pray through it and ask the Lord like, what are you [01:08:00] showing me and what are you showing others that might listen to this?
And then I a video and um, I try to keep it under three minutes. I'm not always very good at that. Um, and yeah, I don't know. I just try to make it as as possible.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Have you ever missed a day?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Um, I think so probably.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay, I'm not sure, but I, when I go on vacation, I try to, I, I still try to keep the same routine. It's become a spiritual practice for me in many ways. Um, it keeps me accountable to my own spiritual practices.
So, okay, so this is as a, just a, a creator,
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: I feel the stress of like, anything I commit to. I'm like, all right, if you commit to it, you've gotta, you know, do the work. And so, like, even starting a podcast, that was my biggest thing, is like, what would I want to talk about long enough that I could keep it going, you know, that I wouldn't lose interest in.
And so that was always like the thing, I, I think about the idea of like, anything [01:09:00] daily stresses me out. Like every day I'm gonna pop on. And I, you know, and it's like you've, you've done it and it's like your thing. And you know, I watched your video this morning on Israel and it was fascinating. And it's like, and I just know like you're gonna offer a little morning reflection.
And I think that's super cool that you do that. And so evidently it doesn't stress you out, and that's great.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: no, it doesn't. Most of the time it does not stress me out. Um, this morning's reading, I was just like, maybe I won't record one today. 'cause that one stressed me out. I was like, how do
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: I didn't know where you were going with that one for a while. Like at the beginning I was like, uh, I like the way you started it. This is my teaser for your Israel video.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: The way you started it. I, I don't know what you said, but I thought you were gonna go a different direction and I was kind of worried 'cause I was like, oh boy, I'm about to interview you and you and I are very unaligned on this subject.
And then you ended up totally going the other direction. I was like, okay, cool. Okay, we're good.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah. That one, that one was really [01:10:00] challenging for me.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: That was not a light topic to talk about while you walk.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: no, that one definitely went over three minutes. I was like, I can't fit this all in. But, um. I'm not, I'm not an expert on the subject of Israel or anything like that, but it was definitely, that was one where I was like, maybe I won't record today. And I recorded like a really terrible, just some of my thoughts and it didn't go anywhere, so I just deleted it and then I was like, okay, let me figure this out. And it came, it came together fine. Um, yeah, no, I usually, whatever I record the first round is what I record. That's it. And then, and then I have a book, uh, stepping into Lent.
So I've been reading through that book every day on TikTok as well. And I have another book called Stepping Into Advent. and then I'll, I'll post these videos also to my Instagram page, uh, with Pastor Bethany. And that's, there's way less people on there, but, um, I don't know. TikTok Hass been kind of fun.
It's a little hard with [01:11:00] like the amount of, what is the word when they're like, not wanting you to have your stuff get out there. is that? Censored, a little bit of censorship
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Oh, Yeah. And that's been frustrating.
I have felt that recently on some of, 'cause
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: videos, I, I normally post a TikTok and Instagram, and normally TikTok does better and then Instagram's a little slower. And lately Instagram's been really good and tiktoks not doing good. And I'm like. It is TikTok changing the algorithm.
Like, 'cause I'm putting the same stuff out that I was and suddenly, you know, something's different.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah. Yeah. It's definitely
not of us who are having the kind of conversations we're having,
Exactly.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: maybe if you're not talking about the stuff that we're talking about, but
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: if you like my content, you'll like the stuff that Bethany is saying on her channel as well.
So there's my plug to go check out. Check out Bethany's Walk with Me series.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Alright, let's transition to a few questions I like to ask everybody and we get to compare your answers. If I were to ask [01:12:00] you, Bethany, what's the greatest glass of wine you've ever had in your life? Is there a story that comes to your mind?
Can you, can you think of what the bottle was? Is it who you were with? Is it where you were? What's the best glass of wine you've ever had?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Um, I, I don't remember honestly, the best glass of wine. I feel like most glasses of wine is the best because
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Ooh, that's solid.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: am, um, because it's always with other people and I love being around other humans. Every Friday is date night for my husband and I, like during COVID when everything shut down. We had never really done dates before.
We couldn't afford it or our kids were too little so we couldn't really get a babysitter. Um, and so during COVID, I, we, on Friday nights, we put, the kids got unlimited screen time from 6:00 PM to midnight and we would make like really good food or charcuterie or something and open up a really good bottle of [01:13:00] wine.
And we would park our, my Subaru in the driveway and we have like kinda a field behind us and. Pop the back of the Subaru and we would sit out there and drink wine and eat food together and sometimes watch a movie and just sit in the back of the car until we had to put the kids to bed at midnight. And it was just, was such a sweet time.
And since then we've never, we've, sorry, I shouldn't say never. We have rarely missed date night. It is our favorite night of the week, and it's the start of our Sabbath as well. And so we always, always open a really good bottle of wine on that Friday night and share it together.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yes.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: an epic date night.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah. Yeah. We've been married, uh, 25 years and it's just been, we've been through shit, man. We've been through it for sure. Um, yet it's just like, even, I think that that's like my, my greatest place of gratitude is even with the difficulty [01:14:00] of raising kids who've experienced such trauma. Our marriage has been really strong,
and so our, our family feels fragmented and impossible and falling apart all the time.
Chaos is constant and yet our marriage has always been really, almost always been really easy. Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: And the secret is, drink a bottle of wine together every Friday night. You heard it from Bethany. Folks, if you want to have 25 years of marital bliss, one bottle of wine every Friday night, I love it. Alright, Bethany, which member of church history would you trust to pick out a bottle of wine for you? And which member of church history would you not trust?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: well, I'm not very good at church history. I guess I would trust, um. Maybe St. John of the cross to pick a good one. 'cause he was full of [01:15:00] darkness and sadness.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Because he is full of darkness. That's your reason.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Like I think, I think he would, I think he would care. Like he would be
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: you know, he had the whole dark night of the soul and like that sense of the depth, like the meaning behind it all, everything mattered, you know,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: That'd be a broody bottle.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yes. Very broody bottle. and probably John Piper
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yes. I don't think we've had that answer yet. And a hundred percent endorse. Do not invite John Piper to
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: or
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: a bottle of wine. Ugh. Also, these are, we haven't had either of those, and those are two solid. Solid nos that
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: I heartily endorse. Okay. What's something you used to believe that it turned out later you were wrong about?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Mm-hmm. Um. Obviously women in ministry. I mean, that's, that's a easy, [01:16:00] um, I think the thing would be like, uh, that merit theology, merit
badge theology, that sense that I have to be perfect for God to love me or accept me, like, the more perfect I am, the greater reward I will get. And so that's something that, um, has been so freeing to let go of.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: That's good.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: How about you?
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Oh, man. I could fill up hours of this.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: grew up not, I wouldn't say like fundamentalist, but very conservative, evangelical.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: So, I mean, you, uh, 'cause I've had my wife ask me this question, I'm like, you pick a subject and I've probably changed my mind on it and I could tell you where I started.
You know, it's like wine. I remember growing up tea Tollers and like my parents. And so I, I just equated if you drank, you weren't a Christian. Like, that's how I Yep. remember as a kid, I have this vivid memory. [01:17:00] We went to one of my friend's house and his dad was like a volunteer at the church and was like big, you know, in the church.
And my friend invited me to get like a drink out of the fridge that was in the garage. And that fridge had their beers in it as well. And then we weren't drinking beers, but the fact that his dad had beers in his fridge, I remember like panicking and I'm like, I have to tell my parents. That they have alcohol because like they, they won't want 'em, you know, they're not real Christians and like literally telling my dad like that they had beer and you know, he is like, that's, it's okay.
Like there are people that drink but like we just didn't grow up with that. So like if you could go back to that version of me today and then be like, you're gonna have a podcast where you drink wine with people and you talk about God,
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: totally.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: kid version of me would've been like, I don't have any box to put that in.
And that's like an easy one I've changed my mind on.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: I don't wanna say everything 'cause I still follow Jesus, but like, it kind of feels like everything.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: absolutely.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: that's what makes it fun. No, I literally, [01:18:00] Jeremy, I have the exact same story. There was a family I used to babysit for and went into their fridge once and saw beer in there and, and they were like very important leaders at our church, and I was just like, they are not saved.
They're, they're going to hell. Like I, my whole worldview just started crumbling about who these people were
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah,
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: like, oh, that's curious. I was just like, oh my gosh. And I, I did, I told my parents because somebody had to tell them.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: exactly. Which is what's so funny because I remember even having this conversation with my parents when, you know, we started having kids and then we would, we would drink around our kids and my remember my parents were like, don't you think. That's dangerous. And it's like it can be dangerous to do the other extreme too.
I would rather them see us enjoy it in moderation and learn that it's healthy and you don't have to have a weirdness with alcohol. Like my kids will grow up like, [01:19:00] and I always, I give my daughter especially really good like sips of my wine. 'cause I'm like, I want, when some boy takes you out to a restaurant to like impress you with Naomi, I want you to be like, you should see what's in my dad's wine fridge.
Like, that's nothing. You know? So like my kids, there's nothing weird to them about alcohol. Like they don't see it abused, they don't, you know, there's no mystique to it. It's just like, that's what it is. We explained it and if they want a sip, I give 'em a sip. So they like, I didn't have that. So I remember growing up like, I wonder what that tastes like and I wonder what it does to you.
And like it was all this mystery and it's like the mystery can get you in trouble in that regard, you know? It's like, no, just this is what it is and let's talk about it. And.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah. Modeling. Modeling. That sense of, um. Yeah. Commitments and goodness. And whether it's with food or exercise
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah, all of it.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: of it. Yeah, that's good.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: What do you see as the main issue facing Christianity in the US today?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Beyond just the [01:20:00] obvious Christian nationalism, um, I think the bigger thing is the blame towards the other side, pointing fingers all of the time. I think, um, yeah, blame it. It stunts anybody's growth. It stops flourishing from happening. We don't take accountability for ourselves on either side, and I believe that it's becoming more extreme over time.
And, um, one church become in the extreme becomes all about like preaching hell, fire and brimstone against gay people and the other church to the other extreme. Has a pastor in drag, you know, or whatever it is. Like, there's just these two ways of, both mudding the gospel and believing that they are right and everybody else is wrong and against them. And it's like we keep just throwing darts and arrows at each other. And the enemy, I believe is just like, yes, [01:21:00] you're doing such a good job. I mean, and it's just, it's just really sad. It breaks my heart, but at the same time, like I, I wanna be a person that continually provides space for the tension for people to have those conversations, to be in a, in a bridge sort of mentality. But me, in my female body as a pastor already represents
the other side. And so I, as much as I want to be that person, I'm not as, I'm not safe for some people because of who I represent or how I represent myself, if that makes sense.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah. I did a message last weekend on the, the mimetic view of atonement from Rene Gerard and talking about scapegoating.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I did that last week too, or two
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Oh, did you?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah. Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Are we the same person? What's happening right now?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I just spoke on scapegoat theory.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: That's amazing. Okay. So what was fascinating to me is. Most people in the community told [01:22:00] me they had never heard it. Like that was the first time they had been exposed to it.
But the other thing that went with that is they're like, oh my gosh, that scapegoating thing is everywhere. And it was like this aha moment. Even one of my kids is like, dad, that explains so much of history. And I was like, it abs Like that's literally how Gerard arrived at the theory of like,
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Totally.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: a minute, we keep doing this and we're doing it today.
And so, yeah, I totally agree. The scapegoating mechanism is alive and well right now.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: if you wanna know how to escape it and why it's a problem, check out Bethany's message on Mimetic theory and she'll answer it for you.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yep. You can find all the podcasts or all the, the messages that, uh, on YouTube, if you look up Catalyst Church. Humboldt,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: There you go.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: What is something blowing your mind right now that you're learning?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Hmm. Oh gosh. Um, well, honestly, my brain does not retain information very well, so I can't tell you that.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: [01:23:00] Wow. I, I find that hard to believe.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: No, that's totally true. Because there is something I can, I, it's like somewhere back here in the back of my brain, it's like, don't you remember? It was this thing and
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: As soon as we get done with the podcast, you'll be like, shoot, that's what it was
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Oh, I guess, okay. This is the thing that I was kind of working through. I didn't get anywhere with it, and it's just like an, an imagination or whatever, but I was thinking of Baras and how often people think of like, oh, we're all of Baras.
Like, Jesus took Barabis's place on the cross. Not like literally. I mean, yeah, literally. But it's not like Jesus was like, I'll do it for him. It was commanded by Pilate and Barabis was an insurrectionist. He was rebellious, he was a murderer. He was somebody who like was against Rome at every turn. And I just kept thinking like, what if Barabis started the movement the zealots that then created that rebellion that Titus Em [01:24:00] Titus into Jerusalem to sack Jerusalem in 70 80?
Like what if it was like Barabbas that was like the guy, the movement. That Jesus took his place, and then that was the fall of Jerusalem to where then the temple was destroyed, and the movement of the Holy Spirit became even more profound within people's lives. And the movement of the, the rabbis became even more profound because no longer was God in one location.
Obviously from like the split of the curtain when Jesus died on the cross, that represented that. But for the Jewish people themselves, there's no longer this place that held the presence of God, specifically in Jerusalem. Because of the fall of the temple, the presence of God felt more accessible because of the rabbinic movement that came outta the Pharisees and everything like that.
So anyway, Braas could be more, that's just my imagination that
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: You, you started this answer by saying, I can't keep these ideas in my head, and then unloaded that.[01:25:00]
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Sometimes they just start spilling out, but I don't know where they, where they, they're held. They're like,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Bethany, Yeah, don't know how to tell this to you, but, uh, you were lying earlier when you said that you can't remember these things. Did, is this Baras thought just a thing that you're thinking, or do you read something that triggered that?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: it was just something I was thinking about yesterday and I was like, I should write about this. And I
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: That's the craziest,
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I was like,
this is dumb, this is boring. And I moved past, but I think it's still kind of something.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: I think Yeah. you need to scratch on that a little bit. See, see where it goes. That's, that's interesting. What's something that you're excited about right now?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Um, so what's really cool, cool and weird is, um, my daughter is pregnant and so I will
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Congrats.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: in October. Very exciting, but also not the most ideal circumstances. She's unmarried and 18 and trying to figure life out for herself. Um, and so the [01:26:00] timing is probably really difficult for her, but it was what was really cool. Was, um, you know, I grew up in the purity movement and where there's just loads of residual shame that lives within me and lives within a lot of people that are part of our church community coming out of Church. Uh, raised in the same kind of mentality, trying to get away from it, but it's still like ingrained in our DNA in many ways. And so at church a couple days ago or a couple weeks ago, Emily said, Hey, um, I want to let everybody know that I'm pregnant. I was like, what you do? And she's like, yeah. Like, why wouldn't I, this is like my church family. And I'm like, okay. Kind of freaking out inside a little bit. 'cause I have all that, like, all that fear in me of what will people think or how could this happen?
You know, all the [01:27:00] things that I deal with that she obviously. deal with which
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: You, you went Scarlet letter on it and she went in a total different direction.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Totally, totally. 'cause she doesn't live with the same, she wasn't raised in that way. Obviously, like we said, you know, sex is meant to be in marriage and all that, all that sort of stuff. But there was never any, like, God's going to hate you or that it's the biggest sin in the world. It was more like, this is meant to be in the context of a committed relationship, preferably marriage. If not, please use protection, like, and consent. Um, and so she wanted to do that at church. And, and so I said yes. And so we, we walked up at the end of the service and she is, and I announced it because she wanted me to announce it with her next to her, to her.
And I'm sharing it like a little bit overwhelmed. And there's, there was this, um. in my husband's church. He grew up Catholic, but [01:28:00] when he was in high school, he started going to an evangelical church. And there was this moment that the pastor's daughter was pregnant. She ended up pregnant when she was 18 with her boyfriend.
And the pastor made her and her boyfriend get up in front of church and announce it and apologize to the entire church because of what they had done wrong. They had failed the church, they had failed God. And so I shared a little bit of that story and then I just started weeping and I was like, I want our church to be the kind of place that blesses new life, that celebrates it, regardless of the circumstances that comes around each other and undoes the levels of shame that comes with purity culture that so many of us are still battling. So everybody like just extended their hands and prayed for her and people were crying because they themselves are finding this moment as a type of redemption, even though my daughter doesn't understand that 'cause she doesn't live with it. So many others are like living vicariously through that moment. [01:29:00] And it was not just exciting. It's very healing. that's where we're at.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: What a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay. Before we wrap up, Bethany, is there anything I have not asked you that you want to address, that you're like, we cannot close this conversation until I say this.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Oh, no, I don't think so. I don't know. I feel like we talked about a lot of wonderful things. Um, I love, I love to lift weights and that's like kind of where I find my sense of, um, it's like my own thing. No one needs me. Um, I ignore everybody. I put my headphones on. Probably have like resting bitch face a little bit and just kinda like in my own zone.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Do you go to a gym or you do it at home? How do you do this?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I go to a gym. I go to a gym and uh, actually we, we've had a few people from the gym come to the church, which is kind of cool too. But yeah, I love doing that for [01:30:00] myself. Um, going on walks, obviously,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: What's your favorite lift?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: um, probably Bulgarian split squats right now.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Oh,
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I know. They're awful. They're the
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: those are awful. Of all that you could say you dropped that. Oh
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I've done something when I do
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah. Well, you are legit. I could just tell based on that answer. I would be afraid of you in the gym. So well done
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: that. All right. If,
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: wait, how about you? Anything that you feel like you need to say?
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: no, this has been incredible.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay.
Sweet. I'm amazed how many times you can, like, like I, you and I have never met. We've, this is our first, we've interacted online, but this is our first conversation. I feel like you and I have been friends for, for years and
so cool?
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: that just is a weird feeling to me to be like you. I feel like, yeah, like it's like we're catching up and we have seen each other in a little bit, but [01:31:00] it's like, I've never met you.
I don't know.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: So like that's so encouraging to me about community, of like how God draws people together. And I think in the season where a lot of people, especially listening to this podcast are very lonely and feel like, I've lost my community. I've lost my tribe, or I got kicked out, or you know, and so they're dealing with that grief and then to find other people, they're like, oh gosh, you too.
And so that's where it's like, I love introducing voices like yours to this community for people to go, there's another person like us, you know? And I feel it with you, and I think our listeners will feel it with you too.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: That's awesome. Totally. I was thinking, gosh, I should, like, we should drive out to Arizona and hang out with these
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: You should. You should. We will do something awesome.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: can do a Friday night, double date wine night,
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: yes,
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: and we'll make it epic. That would be so fun.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: that'd be awesome.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Okay. We'll have to, we'll have to do that if, if someone's listening, they're like, I, I'm in. She's awesome. What's the easiest way for them to find you and [01:32:00] find the stuff that you're doing?
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: yeah. So on Instagram, it's with Pastor Bethany. I have like my family Instagram, which is Bethany Nashe, CSEH, which is a weird spelling
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: It is very weird.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: I know. On TikTok. It's with, with Bethany? No, no. Pastor Bethany. That's what it's called on
TikTok.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Mm-hmm.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Um, you can find sermons at Catalyst Church, Humboldt on YouTube. And if you ever are looking for a church community and haven't found one, we have a Zoom church that meets every Sunday at 11 o'clock in on the West coast. So, uh, you can find that Zoom link on our website, which is provoke change.org.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Very cool. Well, Bethany, this has been a delight of a morning drink to have with you as we talk about life and all the cool things that you're doing. Thank you for the way you live out your faith, the way you are adding your voice that is very much needed and bringing so [01:33:00] much beauty to the world and the beauty of Jesus to very heavy subjects as you had, as you tackled this morning.
So thanks for doing that, and thanks for joining us on, uh, on this podcast.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah. Thank you for all that you're doing too, though. Like the, the things that you put out there on TikTok, I'll have to find you on Instagram, but just that sense of, um, just curiosity, the willingness to wrestle with hard subjects, how you, you and your wife get to process those things together and then bring everybody into a conversation that sounds like you guys have been having that conversation for a while and you're like, come on over, talk with us.
We've got things to say. I
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: I need a cool opener. Like you, I don't have a walk with me.
squadcaster-dd7h_1_03-26-2026_110506: It works. It's always, Hey JI love it.
jeremy_1_03-26-2026_110506: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, hey, thank you so much, friends. I hope you have loved this episode as much as I have and, uh, you have a variety of new things to check out of, of Bethany's and resources that will be an encouragement for you as well. And we will see all of you on the next episode of Cabernet and pray.
